2019-08-01 - Re: [GRASE-Hotspot] Update - Have your say on future development

Header Data

From: Charles Chambers <cc***2@gmail.com>
Message Hash: 96cc5f760d6609dc63cc673ee6b60edaa41be6244489ab34f3c525df6864ded2
Message ID: <CAGPMUcEtr16vPRVV7kzkV5pEDYK=CJMACMLO14Qn-9kjSh33wg@mail.gmail.com>
Reply To: <CAESLx0Kb52N-_R6vdeHcQB=78e9e+zPUTF99hv6jGTe9JJB6yw@mail.gmail.com>
UTC Datetime: 2019-08-01 18:16:25 UTC
Raw Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 18:16:25 -0700

Raw message 

Yeah, well, I'm trying to find an alternative to FirstSpot.  $700 per site
is a bit much, and I would need to acquire a new computer to run it on.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 3:07 PM Tim <ti***8@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 at 01:42, Charles Chambers <cc***2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, if it were entirely software based, no.
>>
> Regardless, updates are needed from a security point of view. For example,
> SSL libraries have changed over the years with security fixes.
>

I'm not so concerned with security as I am reliability and performance.

I'm attempting a change in hardware that is going to require a new
install.  The new install is problematic.  I'm installing on a box with one
USB wifi adapter, and a built in ethernet attached to a wifi access point.


> From my perspective:
>>
>> 1)   I just tried to do a fresh install.  Ubuntu no longer has any of the
>> version 14.04 package repository available, as the OS version is now
>> retired.  The fresh install is going to be quite problematic if I cannot
>> access the package repository from 14.04.
>>
>
> Thankfully, Ubuntu isn't that nasty. http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
> Will get you the 14.04 packages. Hopefully that gets you moving for now.
>

The base install went fine off of DVD.  My first step after an install is
to install ssh, so that I can configure from somewhere else on the LAN.
 The 14.04 package repository is no longer available (according to
packages.ubuntu.com), so installing ssh failed.

I haven't tried old-releases.ubuntu.com yet.  I've set up a private mirror
of the current Ubuntu package and cd image repositories, but I haven't
tried installing off of them yet.  It's on the same computer.

> 2)  The underlying dependencies (coova-chili and the rest) as required are
>> also unmaintained versions dating from *prior to* 2014.  In other words,
>> the underlying dependencies are now also abandoned.
>>
> I follow instructions literally, usually, and I remember briefly
validating and verifying the versions.  There is enough of a mismatch
between what you have customized and what is out there and what has not
been updated in a few years to cause concern.

Interesting. It does appear that Coova Chilli hasn't had a release since
> 2016. However, development is still occurring in the repo, sporadically. I
> build the Coova Chilli packages that Grase depends on, purely so we can
> make sure the features we need are present. For each Grase release, I
> attempt to build the latest Coova Chilli package.
>

See above.

>
> 3)  *Tim* is using a development framework dating from 2014 (or earlier).
>> As I understand it, he needed/needs to update that to go with a change
>> implemented by Canonical in version 16.04 (three years ago).   We've been
>> waiting for *that* update since 2016, three years ago.   It hasn't happened
>> yet.
>>
> The original code had no framework, and relied on MySQL/PHP things that
> aren't supported in PHP 7. 16.04 onwards ships with PHP 7, which is a good
> thing, but makes the job of updating Grase to PHP 7 a pain. For that
> reason, the update that I wanted 3 years ago essentially has turned into a
> massive rewrite of core functionality on the Symfony framework. Work on
> that is in a branch (
> https://github.com/GraseHotspot/grase-www-portal/tree/symfony4)
>

My bust.  I'm *terrible* with names <g>.

That IMHO is the most important piece to complete.  Even if the rest does
not change, getting to a point that it works on at least 18.04 is simply
the most important step in the process.




>
> 4)  Everything is set up as open software, so developing a derivative
>> package that bundles everything together is permitted, and the source code
>> is also freely available.
>>
> Correct. More recent branches have gitlab CI files as well that should
> help with building the packages. If anyone wanted to help, they don't need
> to fork it, just talk to me and start helping. Forks are welcomed as well
> though.
>

Ultimately it should finish up as the package, dependencies as drawn off of
the Ubuntu repositories, and customization after that.  I haven't look at
package architecture in quite some time, but IIRC it's possible to install
the base package, draw and install the dependencies off the Ubuntu
repository, and then draw custom configuration files out of your archive.
I'll see what I can find.  Intricate, but done once.

5) Canonical has designated 19.04 as worthy of the LTS designation.  So now
we have either one of two mileposts to achieve - update to 18.04, or update
to 19.04.  Bundling everything as one package without dependencies would be
a MAJOR added bonus, as it could then be distributed through the package
repositories.

This is news to me. 18.04 has the LTS tag, I've not seen anything about
> 19.04 having that tag, and the releases page still shows it as EOL next
> year (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases). Unfortunately, it's not possible
> to package everything in 1 deb package, especially not if you want it to be
> carried by a distro. They require that individual dependencies are in their
> own packages, so that you can share dependencies. This is why I've run a
> repo specifically for Grase over the years, to make it easier to install.
>

I  take it back.  16.04 (LTS), 18.04(LTS), 18.10, and 19.04 the four major
versions with packages available.  https://packages.ubuntu.com/



>
> 6)  My present platform is now generating warning messages from the lack
>> of hardware support caused by the retirement of Ubuntu 14.04.
>>
>> From what I understand, the project does not pay well enough to be
>> maintained.  Am I correct so far?
>>
> Yes and no. The project doesn't pay, we have one regular donor at the
> moment and unfortunately that wouldn't even cover 1 day/month of
> development. I have a family to support, so my day job is my focus during
> the day (it pays the bills), and my family when I'm at home. It is actually
> thanks to the one donor that I'm continuing to work on the Grase hotspot,
> because obviously someone has faith that it's still useful.
>
> I've put >10 years into this project because it was a niche that didn't
> really have a free open source solution when I started. However, if that
> donor wished to withdraw his support, I'd happily refund the last 12 months
> of donations and then bury the project. Over the years, the donations
> haven't even paid for all the hosting (including the VPN servers that many
> use to remotely administer their hotspots) and domain names.[1]
>
> There are other options out there now. They may not be fully free, or may
> not have all the features, but there are options.
>
> A quick google found the following (that appear to have been updated in
> the last 12 months):
> * https://packetfence.org
> * https://www.pfsense.org/
> * https://www.spotipo.com/ - Not FOSS
> * https://sourceforge.net/projects/easy-hotspot/
> * https://zeroshell.org
>

Not really.  The only one by comparison is FirstSpot.  It's $700 per site,
and it requires Windows.

Put simply. I'm time poor, and I need to pay the bills which dictates where
> my time needs to be spent. I have no need for the Grase hotspot anymore, in
> fact my niche requirement for it was removed 8+ years ago. I'm happy to
> continue trying to plod along if the community wants it, but unfortunately
> I need income to support my family if I'm doing that. If the community
> wants me to abandon it, I will. I'm not going to try and give projected
> update dates, because I've learnt that no matter how good I am at
> estimating how long a project should take (that is part of my job after
> all), I'm really not good at estimating how much free time I have to work
> on it.
>


I have no particular problem with supporting the upgrade to 18.04, if the
rest of the community can get behind it as well.  If I'm viewing the
project correctly, you're looking at two months FTE to bring it current,
and I can't see being the only one to support the entire upgrade.

Bear in mind, I haven't deployed it yet, and as I work with it I get closer
to deployment.  *THE* big holdup is a lack of self-registration.

Also, please don't take this as an attack on the community. The community
> have done a wonderful job over the years including translating into many
> languages, and really helping each other on the mailing list by answer
> support questions, trying to work through strange hardware issues, etc. If
> the community hadn't sprung up, I would have stopped development 8 years
> ago.
>

I'll take my pique as impatience, and accept your response as chiding.

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