2019-08-01 - Re: [GRASE-Hotspot] Update - Have your say on future development

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From: Henry Terkura Swende <he***e@gmail.com>
Message Hash: b4b117f50ba415b52094a58d61754117ca64f1c5ac4ccbf97bfd228590806fd3
Message ID: <CAHoMbhe8aXqFcq2jyRVn=Nf0nuqeWW6VYRoNVY-MkdA9MFEG2g@mail.gmail.com>
Reply To: <CAESLx0+aVU85TxWoMKb8C4ZPLe_FN9QOzyaySa+BH3c9rvu=Aw@mail.gmail.com>
UTC Datetime: 2019-08-01 23:48:53 UTC
Raw Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2019 07:48:53 +0100

Raw message 

Maybe we should have a systematic approach to updating Grasehotspot and
porting to more recent Linux release... Rather than just leave everything
to Tim or individuals. I think a team thing will take us far

On Fri, Aug 2, 2019, 7:42 AM Tim <ti***8@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 at 11:16, Charles Chambers <cc***2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> 2)  The underlying dependencies (coova-chili and the rest) as required
>>>> are also unmaintained versions dating from *prior to* 2014.  In other
>>>> words, the underlying dependencies are now also abandoned.
>>>>
>>> I follow instructions literally, usually, and I remember briefly
>> validating and verifying the versions.  There is enough of a mismatch
>> between what you have customized and what is out there and what has not
>> been updated in a few years to cause concern.
>>
>> Interesting. It does appear that Coova Chilli hasn't had a release since
>>> 2016. However, development is still occurring in the repo, sporadically. I
>>> build the Coova Chilli packages that Grase depends on, purely so we can
>>> make sure the features we need are present. For each Grase release, I
>>> attempt to build the latest Coova Chilli package.
>>>
>>
>> See above.
>>
>
> At the point I can build an 18.04 package, I'll upgrade Coova Chilli to
> the latest version. Each version changes things slightly, so trying to
> rebuild Coova Chilli for a new image takes a considerable amount of time.
>
>
>
>>
>>> 3)  *Tim* is using a development framework dating from 2014 (or
>>>> earlier).  As I understand it, he needed/needs to update that to go with a
>>>> change implemented by Canonical in version 16.04 (three years ago).   We've
>>>> been waiting for *that* update since 2016, three years ago.   It hasn't
>>>> happened yet.
>>>>
>>> The original code had no framework, and relied on MySQL/PHP things that
>>> aren't supported in PHP 7. 16.04 onwards ships with PHP 7, which is a good
>>> thing, but makes the job of updating Grase to PHP 7 a pain. For that
>>> reason, the update that I wanted 3 years ago essentially has turned into a
>>> massive rewrite of core functionality on the Symfony framework. Work on
>>> that is in a branch (
>>> https://github.com/GraseHotspot/grase-www-portal/tree/symfony4)
>>>
>>
>> My bust.  I'm *terrible* with names <g>.
>>
>> That IMHO is the most important piece to complete.  Even if the rest does
>> not change, getting to a point that it works on at least 18.04 is simply
>> the most important step in the process.
>>
>
> I did start down the track of doing the least work possible to run on PHP
> 7. Unfortunately for the database side of things we relied on a PEAR DB
> library, which was a great idea back them before PDO existed, and was the
> worst idea for trying to move to PHP 7. So by the time you rip out that
> layer and replace it with something modern, you've replaced all the
> important logic anyway. Then you discover that the templating engine also
> doesn't play with PHP 7 nicely, so you rip that out and suddenly you have a
> brand new application. Essentially, without trying to run a really old
> version of PHP on 18.04 (I'm not going to try and package PHP 5 for 18.04),
> we're stuck in the "rewrite" we're in. Any code that can be reused has been
> reused, but all the database and template code has to be redone on a modern
> library, so the Symfony framework is a freebie that comes with that.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 4)  Everything is set up as open software, so developing a derivative
>>>> package that bundles everything together is permitted, and the source code
>>>> is also freely available.
>>>>
>>> Correct. More recent branches have gitlab CI files as well that should
>>> help with building the packages. If anyone wanted to help, they don't need
>>> to fork it, just talk to me and start helping. Forks are welcomed as well
>>> though.
>>>
>>
>> Ultimately it should finish up as the package, dependencies as drawn off
>> of the Ubuntu repositories, and customization after that.  I haven't look
>> at package architecture in quite some time, but IIRC it's possible to
>> install the base package, draw and install the dependencies off the Ubuntu
>> repository, and then draw custom configuration files out of your archive.
>> I'll see what I can find.  Intricate, but done once.
>>
>
> Most of the dependencies we relied on previously didn't exist in Ubuntu,
> or like Coova Chilli were old versions. Anytime I don't have to package a
> dependency and can use Ubuntu's I will.
>
>
>
>>
>> Put simply. I'm time poor, and I need to pay the bills which dictates
>>> where my time needs to be spent. I have no need for the Grase hotspot
>>> anymore, in fact my niche requirement for it was removed 8+ years ago. I'm
>>> happy to continue trying to plod along if the community wants it, but
>>> unfortunately I need income to support my family if I'm doing that. If the
>>> community wants me to abandon it, I will. I'm not going to try and give
>>> projected update dates, because I've learnt that no matter how good I am at
>>> estimating how long a project should take (that is part of my job after
>>> all), I'm really not good at estimating how much free time I have to work
>>> on it.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I have no particular problem with supporting the upgrade to 18.04, if the
>> rest of the community can get behind it as well.  If I'm viewing the
>> project correctly, you're looking at two months FTE to bring it current,
>> and I can't see being the only one to support the entire upgrade.
>>
>> Bear in mind, I haven't deployed it yet, and as I work with it I get
>> closer to deployment.  *THE* big holdup is a lack of self-registration.
>>
>
> What kind of self registration? There is already the "free account" button
> that allows devices to get a "free" account based on a group (so
> restrictions are applied). I also have some patches I've done over the
> years that aren't good enough to make it into the release (hacky patches)
> that would help you get started with other registration methods (like
> needing to provide name/email first).
>
>
>>
>> Also, please don't take this as an attack on the community. The community
>>> have done a wonderful job over the years including translating into many
>>> languages, and really helping each other on the mailing list by answer
>>> support questions, trying to work through strange hardware issues, etc. If
>>> the community hadn't sprung up, I would have stopped development 8 years
>>> ago.
>>>
>>
>> I'll take my pique as impatience, and accept your response as chiding.
>>
>
> I want to just say Thankyou for asking the question. I'm not great at
> giving updates until asked, so it's good to get the prompt to give an
> update. It also gives me another chance to see what the community interest
> is like. People asking for updates and still wanting to use it, that helps
> me know that it's still wanted. No point developing something that's not
> still wanted, especially when I see other solutions out there that are
> "good enough" for some people.
>
> Maybe I can work out an interim solution of PHP5 on 18.04, I'll have a
> play around with it in the near future. But it'll be 'unsupported', best
> effort kind of thing (especially as it'll involve installing a PPA to get
> it working).
>
> Regards
>
> Tim
>
>
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